[Okc] Re: [ok-sus] run your car on water

[Robert Waldrop]

I am not much of a physical scientist, but since I got involved with studying petroleum depletion, and its consequences for society, I have come to a new appreciation for the "laws of thermodynamics."  For those whose acquaintance with these fundamentals is hazy, I suggest http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae280.cfm , which includes this "popular" explanation of the 3 laws of thermodynamics:

1.  You can't win.  There is no such thing as a free lunch.

2.  You can't break even.

3.  You can't get out of the game.

Read the link for a more complete explanation, the point for evaluating the consequences of peak oil is the second law -- which among other things means that energy changes always lose energy.  If you want 1000 btus of work out of a hydrogen fuel cell, you must put more than 1000 btus of work into the fuel cell.  This is no way out of this.

It is true for oil too, BUT we make an apparent profit on oil (and gas and coal) because the original energy investment was ancient sunlight.

We all know technological enthusiasts who believe that the "Deus Ex Machina" (God of the Machine) will obediently provide some gee-whiz technological miracle to get us out of our problem, but that isn't going to happen because it isn't physically possible to get past the 2nd law of thermodynamics.  

Robert Waldrop, OKC


----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John SomdeCerff 
  It always takes more energy to split water than you get back out by burning it.  Even if you could split the water at 100% efficiency, your engine will get a third of that at most out to the wheels.  So you get less than 33 watts out for every 100 you put in.
  There are no free rides in thermodynamics, you always get less out than you put in.

  John Somdecerff
  Degree in Mechanical Engineering
  Registered PE in Oklahoma (in Control Systems)
  (Former "car guy" before realizing biking is the way to go.)
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